Interview

Tachiai Interviews Priyanka Yoshikawa: “Sumo carries so much of the Japanese culture”

Josh K Interview, Tobizaru , ,

Over the years at Tachiai, we’ve been privileged to speak with a number of people who are inside of or adjacent to the sumo world. We love being a part of the journey that international sumo fans make when they connect to sumo and learn more about it. Other content creators are an increasing part of that ecosystem, and it’s always enlightening to hear about their journey into the sport and what they are doing to share it with other international fans.

It was somewhat of a surprise when I discovered Priyanka Yoshikawa on the Live in Tokyo podcast. A former (and historic) Miss World Japan and star of Love is Blind: Japan, the businesswoman is enthusiastic in her sumo fandom and is embarking on a journey to share it with others. Recently, we met for coffee in Tokyo to chat about it, and this is the result of that conversation, which has been edited for length and clarity.

Tachiai: We always want to talk to interesting and notable people in the sumo community, so thank you very much for taking the time to speak to us. For our audience who might become aware of you and your work for the the first time through this interview, how would you introduce yourself?

Priyanka Yoshikawa: I’m part Indian and part Japanese. I was born in Tokyo, but I was raised in Sacramento, California. I lived in India for a bit, and then I came back [to Japan] when I was 11. Since then, I’ve been living in Tokyo. People know me the most from Miss World Japan in 2016. It was a little controversial because I was the first biracial person to win Miss Japan. And then they know me from Love Is Blind: Japan which was two years ago. It was a Netflix Original, a spinoff of the US version. Those two are the main things that people recognise me from or how they know me. Sumo’s not work, so nobody really recognises me from sumo, but people are catching on and saying “oh, she’s really into sumo these days!”

I think there are a lot of people who are interested in sumo around the world, but they don’t really know how to get into it. It’s very niche and unique: everybody knows sumo but not a lot of people talk about it. You don’t see an English language influencer that only talks about sumo. One of my friends, who I used to be in the same agency with, started her career in her teens and her job as a tarento is all about sumo. So she does tv shows and reports all about sumo, but she only speaks Japanese. She encouraged me to do stuff in English, and that way we won’t be competing with each other. Maybe it will extend to something more [in the future].

Let’s talk about your origin story in sumo. Most people have an “a-ha” moment when they discover or get into the sport, or they were introduced by an older family member or friend. Did you go to basho when you were younger? What was the moment that really got you excited?

I had never gone to a sumo match [in person] until last year (2023). I’m still very new to the sumo world, but I really love it. I’m so into it. I’ve always been interested. I used to go to my grandparents’ home during the weekends, and the sumo matches were on. Obviously it’s 15 days in a row and happens during the weekdays as well, but it covers multiple weekends and I would see it, because we’d watch NHK, and I was like “oh my god this is interesting!” This is after I came back to Japan, so I was in middle school. I told my grandpa that I was so interested and I wanted to see it, and one day he said  “let’s go together when you’re a little bit older.” He passed away, so I couldn’t go see it with him. That stuck with me, and I said “I want to see a sumo match, I want to see a sumo match,” and I kept saying it, and then last year (2023) finally I got the chance to go.

I was so fascinated. You think you know how it’s going to go, but some matches are less than ten seconds. It’s hard to describe why I love it so much, but it just got me hooked. On that day, I saw my favourite sumo wrestler now for the first time, Tobizaru. And I said “that sumo wrestler is cute!” My friend told me that he’s actually known for being cute. So I was like, “oh… interesting.”

You are quite the fan of the flying monkey, Tobizaru, and you post him from time to time on your SNS.

I only post about him!

I actually like Ura as well. I wanted to pick my top favourite, but now I have three or four favourites because of how short the matches are! If I only cheer for one wrestler the whole day, the match could be over in seconds, so I needed more people to cheer for! Then I can enjoy it for a bit longer. Although, even if they’re not my favourites, watching all of the matches is incredible because when you learn a bit about the techniques, you realise what a good torikumi really is. So, Tobizaru became my favourite, and then I started to look up rules and got into it more.

Many of our readers are big fans of Tobizaru, actually.

Oh! I’m so happy.

And he’s apparently made an effort to learn English! So what is it for you about him that makes him your favourite rikishi?

Yeah, he has! He’s a very social rikishi to start off with. Ura and Tobizaru both have similarities. They’re small – if you don’t know sumo wrestlers, they’re big – but for us, they’re small. Small sumo wrestlers have a different approach. I actually like Midorifuji as well – these three are my top favourites. Then Atamifuji – he’s huge but he just looks like a mochi! Everybody should like him, he’s just so cute.

With The Flying Monkey and Ura’s techniques and how they do the torikumi, even if they lose, it’s still a good match that everybody enjoys. You don’t know what’s going to happen that day. They come with a strategy, sometimes it doesn’t work, but still the opponent [needs to figure out] what’s going to happen, what are the tactics are going to be that day? That’s very exciting. Tobizaru has also been stable for the past two years, he came down from Komusubi but he’s even won against Terunofuji twice. His matches are always fun to watch. And he’s cute! [laughs]

Is there a particular style that you enjoy the most, is it kind of the crazy guys who get your attention? Or do you appreciate different styles as well?

This year I went to all of the basho, not 15 days in a row, but all of them – and then I realised what I personally liked. Obviously these were smaller wrestlers. Atamifuji is just a huge mochi teddy bear, you want him to win. He’s everybody’s neighbourhood child. But Ura, Tobizaru, Midorifuji, they’re smaller sizes and you don’t know what to expect. Sometimes you feel they’re going to lose and in the last minute it just goes all the way around.

As for the bigger guys, like Onosato, he’s so strong! Kotozakura and Hoshoryu, these guys are great wrestlers… but when it came to these two [against each other] I was cheering for Kotozakura. It’s not like I never cheer for Hoshoryu. I do like the bigger rikishi too, but they’re just not the ones that I cheer the most for.

Do you have an OG favourite as well, someone who you were watching on your grandparents TV in the old days?

Hakuho. Before I became this much of a SuJo (Sumo Joshi), I was a fan of Hakuho. I got to meet him this year. I also met him 5 years ago, when I was an MC for an event where he was appearing as a guest, and I took a photo with him and another MC. Obviously he doesn’t remember me, but this year I saw him at the Fukuoka basho and we took a picture, and he was so nice. Hakuho used to be my favourite even before I got to know so much about sumo.

Do you have a favourite yusho or just even like an iconic moment from the last few years that sort of really stands out for you?

Well, I didn’t get to see it live [in person], but when Tobizaru won against Terunofuji and everybody was throwing the zabuton, I liked that. This year [2024], the last musubi-no-ichiban. The two of them (Kotozakura and Hoshoryu) are doing so well, mentally as well. Hoshoryu, when he loses, he loses in a second, but he also wins in a second. But this last musubi-no-ichiban, he didn’t lose in a second and nobody could tell who was going to win. Also, the Kyushu basho itself sold out for all 15 days after 28 years. Sumo is back!

Obviously you’ve been to all six basho this past year. For people who are new to the sport and just discovering it for the first time, what’s the one thing you wish that new fans to the sport will get out of the live sumo experience?

I didn’t know anything [at first], but I was like “I love this!” It happens so fast, that if you’re new to it maybe you wouldn’t know what just happened, or understand how to enjoy it. Even if you don’t have experience of sumo from the beginning, I think if you are interested, go again, stick with it.

I want people to like it more. When you think about it, it’s a little bizarre. A lot of people don’t know, but they can’t wear anything besides a kimono and yukata in their daily lives. They always have the hairstyle, it’s not like they can wash their hair every day. There are so many meanings to it, the salt being for purification… it just carries so much of the Japanese culture. When you think about Japan, you think of the kimono, or the tea ceremony, the samurais and all. None of my generation who are not a sumo wrestler who would dress up like that, right? Some people wear kimono, but not the hair!

They’re fat, but they actually have a ton of muscle. They train, and when you think about how fat they are, just them being not sick and being able to do this sport is a miracle! Apparently it’s a very lucky sport just because of that.

There are so many things to enjoy about it, but in the beginning you just don’t know as much. One tip is you could find a sumo wrestler to follow that’s makushita or below and fights in the mornings. If you’re that into sumo, that amount of dedication, that’s a different way to enjoy it. But if you’re a beginner, I don’t really recommend to go to the basho in the AM. I go in around 2pm, then I take photos, I eat, and then by makuuchi I’m there.

I think that’s really good advice, because you wouldn’t believe there are so many people – and maybe there are those in the gaikokujin sumo community who have a tendency to dunk on people who are going for the first time or whatever, that’s not what I’m saying here – but you do see a lot of people who are there, maybe on vacation, who are just looking for something to do. They go and don’t really know what they’re seeing, they come to Kokugikan having never seen it before, and they come at 11am and then by 3pm they’re like “I’m done, I’ve seen enough, I don’t know what this is,” and then they don’t see all the top guys. So it’s like, “come later, it’s ok!”

No, it’s too early! Obviously you can watch from Juryo. [It’s only] if I’ve ever heard any rumours or stories of a rikishi having a bad personality that I can’t become a fan of them.

So that begs the question: “Love Is Blind: the Rikishi Edition.” Would that work?

Yeah, that would work!! Oh, maybe it wouldn’t work! I don’t know [laughs]. I’m into sumo. Some people are like, “you’re into plus sizes” and I’m like “dude, no, I just like the sport.” You know, some people like baseball, you find your favourite athlete right? It’s just like that. If it’s a sumo wrestler, I’m ok.

So if five rikishi went on TV, on a reality show, do you think people would watch? Would you watch?

I would watch! I would raise my hand to be on it! I was auditioning for and got called in for a casting for another dating show. And they were asking, “what kind of guy do you want us to cast?” And I said “these are the kinds of people in my past relationships, I guess I have a tendency to fall for these characters, but if you can cast the Flying Monkey, I’m so down!” [laughs]

Here’s why I think it’s an interesting idea: if you said, “I’m really into this kind of a Tobizaru kind of character” but then they match you on the show with someone like Chiyomaru (no offence to Chiyomaru)…

No, no… that wouldn’t work.

But it would make for good TV!

Yeah, true! I would be like “whoa!”

Priyanka with Kumamon at the 2024 Kyushu basho

As someone who has been an ambassador for the country and the culture on the world stage, can you relate at all to the sense of curiosity that the world has towards the national sport? Is there anything in your experience that allows you to empathise with how people look at other aspects of the culture? These guys obviously represent Japan by virtue of what they do, and you have obviously been out there representing Japan through the work that you’ve done.

Their world is very unique and they technically live in a different world from the rest of us normal Japanese people. Tobizaru or Ura, those guys are 2 years older than me, but the lifestyle that they have is completely different to the lifestyle that I have. Being fat, the hair and stuff too, it’s just a different world. If they were to wear normal clothes or whatever, without the hair, they would stick out, whatever they do. Even though it’s very niche, they stand out. In western culture, the look of a sumo wrestler is also an image of Japan. But they’re just bigger, that’s all.

In the lives they live, there are so many rules, the Sumo Kyokai is like their agency. They’re kind of isolated in this sumo world. I’m not a sumo wrestler so I can’t relate, but they have their own unique experiences that we can never have. I don’t think they are given enough opportunity to go outside of Japan, but maybe they can go have a jungyo outside of Japan and that’s a way that they can take the culture outside of Japan.

Apparently they were trying to do (the London trip) before COVID. Tobizaru told me he had never gone outside of Japan. Just listening to that I thought, “you’ve never gone outside of Japan!?” And he said “No, I haven’t.” For me it was a little sad to know that, because they have a good life if you’re above a certain level. Still, I wish people would know more about sumo and have more opportunities to meet sumo wrestlers.

You mentioned the Kyokai being like their “agency.” When you were doing Miss World – and you mentioned there’s someone you go to create content with and she’s still represented by an agency – are there ways that you can almost relate in the sense of having an agency represent you, these guys have the Kyokai that manages their time and what they’re able to do. Like you said it’s different to what the experience is for the average woman growing up in Japan…

From the experience of being in the public eye – as fans I think it’s important to remember that these wrestlers are athletes who deserve our respect. While they may be famous and even have a charming presence, at the end of the day, they are men and human beings. We think that they’re so special and different – and they are different, but they’re normal humans as well. A K-Pop star is different, but still human, a little more relatable if much more famous. They live, they get married, they have kids. We can’t forget that.

Anyone who comes to a basho is aware of the large and diverse amounts of sumo merch that’s produced and sold by the Kyokai. On Max Capo’s Live In Tokyo podcast you said, “sumo is where I spend my money.” So, what are your can’t miss merch items, or some of the favourites in your personal collection?

Oh yeah! Definitely the towels. There are two towel [designs] the kyokai made, and then there’s another towel the Kyokai made that’s a little more creative – The Flying Monkey with his face drawn on it. I have a Midorifuji uchiwa (fan). I became a fan of Midorifuji when I went to go see sumo last May, and he had a really good match. One of the guys we were sitting with just bought a random Midorifuji uchiwa because he won and it was such a good match, that I was like “oh my god, I think I’m going to root for him.” So, [the other fan] gave me that uchiwa and I carry it with me. But the towels are a must-have. I have a Tobizaru pen, but I only need so many pens. The Tobizaru iPhone case is very random, I just bought that.

Do they sell that at the tournament?

No! It’s a CasePlay and Sumo Kyokai collaboration. They ran an ad on Instagram, and the algorithm targeted me [laughs]. And I was like, “OK… Instagram knows that about me!”

Because we’re having this conversation at the end of the year, do you have a sumo wish for 2025?

I especially want the ones that I root for to not get injured! Ura had that big massive injury, it was so bad. I don’t want them to get injured. Tobizaru is turning 33, not actually young for a sumo wrestler. Because I root for him the most, if he can get back to sanyaku, that would be amazing.

I saw you mention that you’re going to start a new sumo TikTok account – is there anything you’d like to tell us about that?

It is TokyoSumoGirl! It’s my [side project], I just want to post my short videos from sumo.

Is there anything else you’d like to share with our readers?

To go see a sumo match right now is a little hard, tickets are selling out so fast. Don’t go from the early morning! Just go from 230, it finishes at 6pm sharp because they air it on NHK. And also, [pay attention to] the sumo wrestler’s routines before the bouts.

So who’s your favourite pre-match routine? Hokutofuji obviously gets really fired up.

Oh, Atamifuji. It’s so long, he has so many routines. When you know all of that, you know when the match is going to happen. Then when they receive the kensho, Onosato has a style that comes from his oyakata. Everybody has their little styles, I look at this. I never spent my money going to see concerts or anything, sumo is the only thing. So much dedication! Thank you so much.

Refreshingly Aloof Glimpse at Onomatsu Beya

Andy Interview

So, this video came across my feed via the good ole social medias and I thought you all may enjoy it. It’s one of those “newbie meets sumo world” videos that’s brilliant and cringe at the same time. After all, it basically ends up being an ad for T-shirts. But it had me absolutely green with envy because it would be awesome to do practice “bouts” with Onosho…and red with second-hand embarrassment as they had no idea who Onosho is, or have the foggiest idea what butsukari is or what the hell was going on. I mean, it’s like not only do the foreigners not know what’s going on, it’s like their Japanese translator/guide has no idea, either. Hilarious. “Oh, you’re the coach, does that mean you used to do sumo, too?” Cue deadpan, “Yes…” The catharsis I felt watching the video was amazing since it presented a view from the perspective of the uninitiated and really made me want to ask my own dumb-ass questions, wondering if I’d get actual answers.

Off on a Tangent

Like, does the practice dohyo here feel different than at other heya, or at Kokugikan? We’ve seen during honbasho how the surface can seem unusually slippery or crumbly. Is that grip one of the multitude of variables that you calculate as a rikishi, in the way that a pitcher or basketball player would consider the grip on a ball, or a golfer would consider their grip on a club? Can you tell if the clay is sourced from a different place, or if too much (or too little) water was added? Or is the dohyo constructed and re-constructed and maintained with such care that the feel is uniform and such tactical considerations are irrelevant? These are the things that keep me up at night.

Bring it Back to Earth, Andy.

Ah, yes, sorry. Back to the video. At one point in the video the bloke named Steffan asks if they can stay the night. After checking with okamisan, they say, “sure.” This is a fantastic opportunity which our aloof tour guide uses to work out with the boys. For one I think Steffan made the right choice and I’m glad Onomatsu beya allowed it to happen. I’d actually prefer working out with the guys at the stable to another night at yet another pub as the rest of his crew did. But Dude, if you were really “one of the sumos,” you wouldn’t have had a room to yourself. You were a paying guest with one hell of an experience to share with us. You know that. Even Choijilsuren probably isn’t “one of them,” yet. He will be this fall, though, when he debuts at Makushita 15. After seeing the quality of the University debutants so far this year, that “University #1” boast is a big boast.

The fact that he’s interviewing a recruit while Onosho is there, calmly working out in the background…probably waiting for his turn to be interviewed…is absolutely hilarious. It makes me wonder if they did chat with him and that conversation ended up on the editing room floor (which is funny), or if Onosho wasn’t in the mood and enjoyed sitting back, watching the lower-rankers get attention from the camera (which is endearing), or if he’s still like, “Dude, I’m right here!” (Hahaha!) I mean, he’s even staring at you in the still image for this video while Choijilsuren is hiding in the back! My sides are splitting. Do you not wonder, at all, why everyone else is wearing black/grey mawashi and this one dude has a white one? I mean…I just can’t.

“I Would Have Done This Differently.”

We’re all watching this video and likely feeling the tug of being an “armchair producer.” If I had done this, I would have done this differently. Like when they’re eating chanko, I probably would have taken a bit more time to explain what was in this particular version, and beyond the meat and veggies, from the recipes I’ve see, they seem to be particularly proud of the stock and many of the more subtle flavors. Or, when interviewing each wrestler, like Nihonyanagi, I would have put his shikona on the screen. I would have asked each wrestler (if willing) to show me their name plate on the wall and ask if that’s the highest position they’ve reached so far in their career, and what is their goal for 2023. The name plates are nothing more than background in this video, certainly not a conversation starter.

Anyway, rather than feelings of “how dare they desecrate my beloved,” I came away from this engaged, laughing at parts, and I enjoyed it. It certainly gave me some reason to want to head out to Chiba and see if I could be lucky enough to watch keiko some day. But I would be very interested to hear from my fellow sumo fans, what would you have done? If you woke up in Chiba, told that you’re going to hand out at Onomatsu-beya for the day, what would you have done? Obviously, Andy would have chatted about inane stuff like, “how do you source your clay?” or “why don’t you have tawara, is it just a pain in the ass to replace all the time, or do you want to avoid injury?” Feel free to pose your own thoughts in the comments.

Tachiai Interviews Murray Johnson, Part 4: “The objective is to fight the best”

Josh K Asanoyama (朝乃山), Gōeidō (豪栄道), Hakuho (白鵬), Ichinojo (逸ノ城), Interview, Ishiura (石浦), Kyushu Basho 2019, Mitakeumi(御嶽海), Takayasu (高安) , , , , , ,

Murray Johnson
Photo courtesy of Murray Johnson

Welcome to the final part of our interview with NHK’s esteemed sumo presenter Murray Johnson. Thank you for everyone who has followed along with the preceding parts of the series thus far. If you missed them, here are the links: Part 1. Part 2. Part 3.

As Bruce notes, we are going live with this final part on the day that Murray’s latest work on the NHK Sumo Preview airs, and just before the upcoming Kyushu basho. This final piece focuses mostly on our reader questions, so thank you to those who submitted them on the site! I had this conversation with Murray during the Natsu basho, so while a few questions may feel slightly out of date, I will caveat that I included many here where the commentary felt relevant and important. As ever, the interview has been edited only for length and clarity.

Tachiai: A reader named Tom asks: “What will sumo look like in the absence of Hakuho when he retires: (with regards to) up and comers like Hoshoryu and Roga, or top division rikishi who are waiting to find that consistency like Ichinojo, or just a general change in the atmosphere of the sport with such a dominant figure (who wasn’t always afraid to speak his mind) departing from sumo?”

Murray Johnson: I say quite often we don’t know where or who this person [the next dominant rikishi] is at the moment. I suggested those that might be factors and regular contributors to the top division who have spunk in their delivery. But the old nail sticks up in Japan, you get knocked down. When Hakuho leaves, it’ll be a relief for a lot of them. But it will be a disappointment, because the objective is you’re supposed to fight the best. The best is gone, a new best comes in.

Just before Hakuho came along, Asashoryu was the only guy. It was looking pretty sad, and some people thought “oh, this is boring, this guy keeps winning everything.” I didn’t think that, but a lot of people did. When Hakuho came along, he still had to work hard because he had reasonably tough opponents.

There will be another. Who he is I don’t know. I mentioned guys who I think have chances to go on. They could get injured, all of a sudden no one’s there. They’ll be relieved though, it will give all of them a chance to win a tournament.

Do you think the diversity of winners that we’re seeing right now will prepare us for the vacuum that will come?

Yeah. Some people will say, “oh this is dull with no Hakuho,” but someone will emerge from the pack.

A reader named Nerima asks: “With NHK World’s coverage in English being available all over the world, does Murray think we are going to see any more top level rikishi from English speaking countries any time soon? And what about about the prospects of any emerging from Australia, given that there seems to be an upsurge of interest in sumo among Australians?” Of course Ishiura studied abroad in Australia.

He went there for six months and worked with the local association people for a while.

I don’t know of any. There’s only one guy in Australia who’s any good, and he’s a former rikishi. I don’t know of anyone coming on from Australia in that sense.

I think Europe is the breeding ground for potential champions of the future. You’ve got Kotooshu (Naruto oyakata) with his own heya now, who’s taken someone on who seems to have disappeared [nb: Torakio, who has officially since retired]. The biggest problem they have is to adapt to the Japanese way of life: the hazing and all of the stuff that goes on behind the scenes. No matter how big you are, if there’s five or six (rikishi) doing it to you…

There was a well known Canadian (Homarenishiki) [who was in sumo and left], and it’s never going to come out what happened to that poor kid. And probably it shouldn’t.

Tachiai: It seems like Musashigawa – who’s got two Americans – Wakaichiro being technically Japanese, and Musashikuni – at least they have a buddy in there so maybe that helps as opposed to someone like Torakio. [nb: Musashikuni has recently himself retired due to injury and is now starring in sumo exhibitions in America.]

Musashigawa is quite smart, he’s not trying to race (rikishi) through. It takes time. If you’re good at a certain age and you just build on it, maybe you’ll get there. It’s hard work!

A lot of people don’t want to train for 15, 20 years, and go “is that all there is?” There have been plenty of foreigners that have been through sumo from all sorts of countries. That will continue to happen, but it will come in waves. There’s a bit of an interest now with Filipinos, because of these young Japanese-Filipinos who have taken it on, who have inspired them. Brazil, maybe? It’s a long way away, but there’s a pretty big fanbase in Brazil. That doesn’t necessarily mean you want to get up on the dohyo. Someone will emerge, but whether they become the ultimate, there’s nobody I can see.

Well there’s a decent segue, because Tomscoffee asks: “Hi Murray! What do you think needs to happen for Takayasu to finally achieve his first yusho. He has gotten achingly close too many times for it to be simple luck. Many of us are desperate to see it happen, but what is the rate limiting factor?”

He needs some fire in the belly. He’s developed this calmness in his sumo that works most of the time, but when the pressure comes and someone bustles him, he doesn’t have that comeback. When he started his sumo he was a pusher-thruster, and then went to the mawashi, and now has both skills. He doesn’t know when to use which one. I think he makes mistakes. He’s trying not to lose instead of trying to win. If he doesn’t win one this year, he’ll never win one. He could join that short list of ozeki who have never won a tournament.

Do you think he’s adopted that bridesmaid mantle that Kisenosato had for so many years?

Well, I’d stop practising with him! I’d go somewhere else. It’s not doing him any good. He’s still getting beaten by a guy who’s retired? And he’s proud of that! His practise was going really well and then it fell off the rails. The biggest problem is we do the preview show 16 days before the tournament. That was all dictated by the holiday.

Well, at the recent soken…

The soken’s a waste of time. An absolute waste! The soken in front of the public is ok, it’s a PR exercise. But the soken in front of the small amount of media and the YDC? I’ve been going to those for 20 years. And I see no reason to have them.

Do you think it gives an opportunity for people within the community who have opinions to have another platform to air them?

Someone like Kitanofuji? No. Kitanofuji’s probably got more bitter as he’s got older, but that’s his job. He’s kind of taken it on board to become the negatory of all the rikishi.

I think at least his opinions are perhaps a little more reasoned than people in the Yokozuna Deliberation Committee (YDC). 

The YDC is an honorary job and they get paid. They’re there to uphold the traditions of sumo.  They’re the conservative face of sumo, so when Hakuho does the three claps, it’s a bit of a brain fade. Now, I thought it was charming! But it was wrong. Most people don’t get to see something like that, because they’ve all left the building. You bring out the newcomers to sumo, and they all stand around, and that’s the last thing that’s done. He usurped that tradition by trying to figure that “we’re losing an era and we’re going into a new one.”

It was embraced by many people, but not the traditionalists. If any YDC member gets one nasty letter from a traditionalist, then it becomes: “we’ve got to discuss this.” But for three hours? It was three hours because they all stood up and had their say. They weren’t straight into him for three hours. I felt sorry for him, but he was wrong.

Stonecreek says: “What is the single biggest reform or change you think needs to be made to ensure a solid future for the sport of sumo?”

I think it’s injury. They’ve got this cash cow which is the jungyo, the provincial tours, to promote sumo to the masses, where people can get up close and personal. And we talk about interest from overseas, but (the jungyo is also) to encourage Japanese boys to take on sumo. And it does work.

Unfortunately, they flog these guys, the idea being that they put these guys out there because they’re employees of the Sumo Association. The whole process, the procedure of going out 28 days in a row, on a bus… you ever sat next to a rikishi on a plane? I’d rather be on the wing!

They have to go out and do (the jungyo). I would like to see that reduced. And then bring in some sports officials with an overseeing view of sports injuries within sumo. There have been excercises that have been carried out by professors that have come from the United States (regarding) body mass and weight and went back and wrote a thesis. But the Sumo Association doesn’t care about that.

Also there’s a diversity in body mass just in the top division and it doesn’t mean that one build creates success or not.

People have talked about “why don’t they have cushions around the dohyo,” or a softer floor, things like that. That’s not going to change. And the elevated dohyo, why it’s elevated when they don’t practise on an elevated dohyo. Well, they learn to roll, and most of the injuries don’t happen from falling off the dohyo, they’re injuries on the dohyo that are sustained during a bout. If there was a flat dohyo, it just wouldn’t be sumo.

I’d say reduce the jungyo, and introduce a realistic sports medicine assessment of injuries where they have people that say, “OK, we’re checking him out of the clinic, and we advise he doesn’t fight for six months. Here’s the submission.” Then the Sumo Kyokai (can) say: “OK, oyakata, this is what we’ve been told, we don’t want to see him on a dohyo for six months.”

Now, if that happens, people will say, “oh, well they’ll lose their rank.” Tough! That’s the system. Maybe you introduce the old system (Kosho Seido) which was abused before, and allow maybe one or two tournaments without losing rank. That’s what I would like to see. 

I totally agree about the raised dohyo, and I would go as far as to say…

It should be higher?

It should be higher! No. Actually, we post sometimes about an amateur tournament that Hiro Morita went out to last year in Long Beach in the States, the USA Sumo Championships. It is not something that traditionalists, people who like the sport as it is here in Japan, are really attracted to. I think they try and appeal to more WWE audience. It’s on a flat dohyo, and I think it does take away from the presentation and the fan experience. There is something about where your eyes are drawn to when you’re at the Kokugikan. 

That same guy who does the US Open is trying to set up two tournaments in Australia: Sushi and sumo. He’s advertising sumo’s years and culture coming to Australia. I think that’s rather interesting! You can get a premium package. It’ll be held in Sydney and Melbourne. No venue, no dates, just prices! Hmm.

Watch this space. Philip Noyed says: “Ichinojo has been up and down in performance over the course of the past couple of years, but (earlier this year) discovered how to swat other rikishi down to the defeat with a slap down to win 14 matches. Will other rikishi figure out a way to defend and counter attack this one-dimensional attack or is he too big and powerful?” [nb: this is now an out of date question given Ichinojo’s injury troubles, but Murray’s analysis related to his long-term career challenges was interesting and I wanted to include it.]

I think firstly the reason he was better is he went to degeiko. He didn’t stay at home fighting one guy. There’s nobody there. He got a bit of a rocket from Hakuho, saying: “You gotta do something, you’re a big guy, you’re huge, use it to your advantage.”

Forget the actual number – 12 of the 14 bouts he won by slap down. He’s been working on moving forward and that’s not been working out well for him. So now automatically he’ll retreat. For people who say, finally now Ichinojo’s turned the corner – I want to wait, let’s see if he can put two together. You can beat him at speed. All (rikishi) have to do is hit and shift. If he starts well, he’s a massive man to move, but the lower back problem he had comes and goes. 

Do you think defending his rank would be a success?

He doesn’t care about rank. He actually doesn’t care if he becomes a Yokozuna or an Ozeki.

It’s been suggested before that he is motivated by kensho, and he turns up for the big matches.

Oh he likes to win the big ones, but he doesn’t always win them with great sumo. He’s a bit of a loner, he does hang out with the other Mongolians. I think he will “ride the elevator” for quite some time. He could go on for quite a long time, he’s not an old guy. He could probably still fight for another five years with a sore back. Whether he stays with numbers like 14, that’s pretty unlikely in my opinion.

George has a big question: Can you predict who might become the next Yokozuna, from people that we already know?

I always said Asanoyama. He had two tournaments were he was looking very light on his feet, which was very surprising to me. The two tournaments prior to that he was moving so well, and adjusting. [nb: a reminder to readers that we spoke right before Asanoyama won his yusho.]

If he gets his act together, Mitakeumi could make Yokozuna – but I don’t think he will. That means full practise! Not just for the cameras.

Speaking of that, one person who practises a lot but doesn’t turn it on in tournaments is Goeido – he’s kind of the opposite of Mitakeumi. What does his career look like from here?

He’s at the end of his career, he’s probably got another year or two year in him. As the opposition gets not as troubling, he might win one more yusho. He’s a flake when the pressure is on. Like Kisenosato was, then he got his act together. Goeido doesn’t handle pressure well, though he did once, his unbelievable zensho yusho. I’m still having nightmares about that!

Why is that?

Oh, I never thought he should have been an Ozeki. I never thought Kisenosato should have been a Yokozuna. I was supposed to eat a straw hat – I had an on-air bet with John Gunning!

Those are the worst ones to lose!

I haven’t seen that hat. Normally, I would say I don’t support any particular rikishi: I’m supposed to be impartial. I like the guys who, when push comes to shove, they pull out the big wins. Goeido elevated in my opinion by getting a zensho yusho but every now and then…

A broken clock’s right twice a day?

Yes, there you go. 

I think those are all the questions we have time for – so, thank you!

Very welcome.

Thanks again to Murray for taking the time to speak with us! You can enjoy his commentary on NHK’s Grand Sumo Preview and also during selected days of the upcoming basho.

Tachiai Interviews BuySumoTickets: “There aren’t enough sumo dates in the year!”

Josh K Hatsu Basho 2020, Interview, Retirement, Stables (Heya) , ,

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Recently, I had the chance to sit down with the team from BuySumoTickets.com. Many of our readers (and even writers!) have had questions about the very murky and high demand sumo ticketing process, so the team at BuySumoTickets agreed to have a chat with us. We talked about the challenges of sumo ticketing, what compelled them to start the business, and what kinds of offerings they provide for sumo fans and tourists.

With the introduction of new ticket tiers for 2020, ticket price increases, and the BuySumoTickets pre-sale having just started for the 2020 Hatsu basho – and with several upcoming rikishi retirement ceremonies on the horizon – it seemed the appropriate time for us to present this content.

Tachiai: You opened the site in 2008. What made you want to provide this service for foreign customers?

BuySumoTickets: My girlfriend was on a travel forum and someone was asking how to get tickets for sumo. She said, “Oh, my boyfriend knows how to do that. Send us the money and your shipping address and we’ll send them out.” It was an exercise in trust! 

I did that first one for free, and I had a “wait a minute!” moment: “Why did I do that for free?” Later that day I had a domain registered. It took a few days to build the site. At the time, the Sumo Kyokai had an old site which had an English version. On that English site it said, “let’s show you how easy it is to buy these tickets for the sumo!” It had a little cartoon drawing of a guy on a phone. It said, “Call this number, in Japanese please!” I just thought, “OK, I can do a better job than this.” And I did.

My expectations when we opened it were very low, and it has vastly exceeded those expectations. I was thinking maybe I could buy a few PlayStation games with the extra money. It took a few years, but then it turned into a full time thing.

It’s well known that you have seen a huge rise in interest for tickets, as it has become harder to get tickets for tournaments in general. What moments in sumo have corresponded with these increases?

The first big drop (in demand) we saw first was the retirement of Asashoryu. For a while, you had the Asashoryu-Hakuho rivalry going on, and when Asashoryu retired, sales went down amongst the Japanese. I don’t mean our customers, I mean overall sales.

The first time we really saw what the Sumo Kyokai was capable of, was when Hakuho was going for the consecutive win streak [in 2010], and the days when he was scheduled to tie and break that record were the middle weekend of the Fukuoka basho. Fukuoka had always been easy for us to get tickets, at least at that stage. When sales opened for those dates, there was nothing. Nothing! That’s when I learned they are both capable and willing of holding all of the tickets back for an entire day.

But in general, do you know what the first (huge jump) was? Everyone’s going to think it was Kisenosato but it started way before that. 

I would think it would be something weird, like Kyokutenho winning his surprise tournament.

The first time when the ticket sales really started increasing, was when Endo got into makuuchi and people started going nuts. I remember thinking after a ticket buy, “oof, that didn’t go as well as it should have.” (Demand) just started getting higher and higher, and we had to start eliminating ticket types from our website, the rarer ticket types that we used to be able to get. All because of Endo!

By the year that Kisenosato won the most matches but didn’t win a tournament (2016), I was starting to panic. I was thinking, “this is bad, this is getting horrible, we’re going to be forced out of business.” When he won that next tournament, I went “oh no!”

But we adapted, we made some contacts that were mutually beneficial, and we were able to survive the Kisenosato era. At least in Tokyo, I don’t see (the demand) reducing any time soon. The main things were Endo and Kisenosato.

Has it become easier to acquire tickets, or has it changed since Kisenosato’s retirement?

It’s become a tad easier, in the cities except Tokyo. In Tokyo, it’s actually got worse! I think the reason for that is the Sumo Association is giving out more of the tickets before public sales open than they were before. It’s easy for them! In other cities, it’s starting to ease off a little to the point where it’s: “can we get you some really good seats,” and not: “can we get you any seats at all.”

Were you able to sell any tickets for Kisenosato’s retirement?

No. We had a couple people request it. It never went on public sale. My understanding is that after his fan club and the stable got done with it, there were only a few tickets left. They put them on a website with a lottery system, and that website crashed for several hours. When that website came back up, there was nothing left.

They do special websites for many of them. I went and talked to Satoyama when he was out hustling to sell tickets for his danpatsu-shiki. His was the day before, and he was working for a while to sell tickets for his.

We’ve done a lot of good for his event.

I have to imagine a lot of people who would like to see Kisenosato’s and can’t get in, would still like to go to that type of event.

Most of our customers don’t know who Kisenosato is! You think you guys [Tachiai and its readers, big sumo fans] are the majority of the customers. You aren’t – you’re a very small minority. The vast majority of our customers are regular tourists seeing sumo for the first time, as a curiosity while they are in Japan. Some of those will become hooked, and join your group (of fans). But the vast majority of our customers do not know who Kisenosato is – if they did, we wouldn’t need the guide (that we send with all orders).

Does that come down to really good SEO? People might say, “I want to buy sumo tickets!” And that is your name.

Yeah. We advertise in various places, but word of mouth is a big one now. There are other sites out there that charge a whole lot more than what we’re charging. We think that’s kind of a jerk thing to do.

What’s the most complicated thing about dealing with a customer from overseas who is not already a fan, and just wants to see sumo?

The most complicated thing is people who don’t understand that sumo tickets are not easy to get. That in Tokyo at least, very, very few tickets are made available to the public. I get people mailing me – and this is serious – demanding front row ringside tickets for Senshuraku in Tokyo! When I say that’s impossible, they say, “Why not? Sales haven’t opened yet!”

Was it Paul McCartney?

Even he didn’t get ringside when he went to Fukuoka!

We get messages like, “I want to sit in the first row of the balcony, north side.” When someone says “North side,” we know they don’t know what they’re talking about. They say, “North side, front row”… that’s the Emperor’s Box! He’s not going to let you use it. Even if it wasn’t the Emperor’s Box, those tickets would not be made available.

The Sumo Association has been extremely clear with us: foreign tourists are their lowest priority. People assume when tickets go on sale that all tickets should have been available, and if we don’t get something for them, that we’ve failed. But we’re very clear about what we do on our website, that we can’t buy tickets if they’re not available, that it’s a preorder, which means we try. There’s never a guarantee, and we say on the site there’s never a guarantee. So it’s the foreign tourists – not the fans – but the tourists, who don’t understand that sumo tickets are hard to get.

You supply a really good introduction to sumo document to your customers. What’s the one thing that you wish customers would know about going to see sumo?

If you lose your ticket, you’re not going in the building!

The document and the packages always say, “Treat this as cash.”

We put that there at the request of the Sumo Association after they got sick of our customers going to the venue with no tickets, making a scene and demanding to get let in anyway.

I think the Japanese attitude, when you lose your ticket is, “well, I’m not going to go.” The foreign attitude is, “I’m going to go, and demand for someone to fix my problem for me!” So, yeah: protect that ticket like it’s cash.

People ask, “why can’t you reissue the ticket?” When you lose your cash, do you go to the bank and ask them to reissue you your cash? (The Sumo Association) makes one, and if it gets out in the wild, they don’t know what happened to it. They can’t make duplicates. Please protect your tickets.

After you get to the venue, the Sumo Association has made two requests of us, that we inform our customers of: the first request is that they do not enter or leave the seating area during a match. The second request is if you’ve ordered a lunch set, please do not ask the guys at the ticket gate about the lunch set and where to get it. Please go inside and ask the ushers. Those are the things the Sumo Association has asked us to tell people, and that is on our site.

What can you tell us about your non-basho ticketing services? Do you get a lot of demand for retirement ceremonies?

Generally, because our customers are not sumo fans, when they book their trip, they have no idea when sumo is on. Sumo is usually the last thing they research. They already have flights, they have hotels, they have an itinerary. Then they find out, “oh, there’s no sumo.”

So, we decided: “we can show you sumo!” We can get retirement ceremonies, and the rikishi super appreciate when we sell the retirement events. We’ve made some good friends that way. The jungyo in October and April especially are the big ones. Since the Kyokai has started increasing the number of (dates) – they used to be only in smaller towns, now they’ve started putting them in Tokyo, Kyoto and Osaka – we’re able to offer a lot more opportunities to see sumo to our customers.

One of the things we’ve regretted is that there just aren’t enough sumo dates in the year! Our business would be a lot bigger and more profitable if sumo was more often. We appreciate that there are other events we can offer to people.

I went to Jungyo for the first time a year and a half ago, during the April tour. It was a completely different experience. I wonder, for a first time viewer who is not familiar, how they would walk away seeing sumo for the first time there, versus seeing it at Kokugikan which is such a different experience. 

You can get closer. Usually you can get some photos with the wrestlers. Disclaimer: wrestlers are all human and they get to decide if you get a photo with them or not! It’s the only opportunity you’ll get to have where you can sit ringside. Years ago, we could sell ringside tickets in Fukuoka and Nagoya. They are often available for jungyo, especially if you’re fast and early.

Do a lot of sumo fans know that you offer services for other sports and take advantage of that, to purchase other tickets (e.g. baseball)? What other sports do you offer?

I wouldn’t say it’s a lot of people who request non-sumo events but we definitely offer that. We do whatever people ask us to get, as long as the process to buy the tickets is okay. We’ve done baseball, soccer, we’re big into pro wrestling now. That’s our next biggest business after sumo.

People ask us to get anime festivals, and weird things that I’ve never even heard of! We do concerts, as long as they’re on sale. We don’t take orders for concerts if they’re not on sale yet, and that’s because they often have a fan club lottery and another lottery, and then a presale for credit card holders and then another lottery… by the time it opens there’s just nothing there. I think I did 9 concerts in a row where I got nothing. If the concert is on (general) sale and there are tickets there, we’ll help.

How do stable visits work if people order this service through you? A lot of people ask us about that.

The biggest problem we have with stable visits is that we don’t get enough of them! We don’t just show up uninvited, we have to arrange a date with the stable in advance. They’re getting very busy these days. They’ve told us that the demand amongst Japanese people to go see keiko has also skyrocketed, not just the foreign tourists. It’s really hard to get dates now, so a lot of them have had to close their doors except by appointment only.

We have to get an appointment, and compete with the stable’s own fan club. Another problem is we often don’t get notice. We try to get dates as far in advance as we can. When we do that, we send you the meeting time and place and we take you out, we show you the practise, we always give you a souvenir of some kind, and commentary.

One thing I want people to know about us is that we support the stables. When you go on a tour with us, you are also supporting the stable. We’ve actually paid out more to the stables this year than we’ve taken out in revenue from stable tours. So, we’re actually operating in the red on these tours, but I like doing them. I like giving something back and helping the people who have been (good) to us. Stables can’t take cash directly, but they can accept support in-kind. We send boxes full of 20kg of meat to a stable, or we’re members of their fan club and go to their parties, and give money to their rikishi when they’re retiring. There are lots of little ways that we can support a stable.

I want people to know that sumo is not just two fat guys in diapers bouncing off each other! A guy emailed us last week asking for information and I replied to him, and he wrote back, “Tokyo is much too exciting a city to sit inside watching two fat guys bouncing off each other.” What! Give it a chance. It’s what I did years ago, I gave it a chance, and here I am.

Thank you to BuySumoTickets for taking the time to chat with us. They can appropriately be found at BuySumoTickets.com. Their pre-sale for the Hatsu basho is available now.