With the tournament now complete, I am eager to see what becomes of Takakeisho. There was a thought at the beginning of all of this, that he might begin March as the second Yokozuna alongside Terunofuji. Most likely that would have been contingent on a strong performance and a yusho. Some readers have pointed out that at 12-3 yusho against a Maegashira 13 is not at all strong. They are correct, but allow me to present the case why he many get the rope anyhow
Merit – At the end of Hatsu, Takakeisho had earned his third yusho, he had also just had a yusho doten, and the jun-yusho in July of 2022. Is that Hakuho level? Of course not, but it’s pretty close to Kakuryu level. But looking across the landscape of ozumo right now, who else is dominant in any sort of consistent fashion? No one, that’s who. There was a time a few tournaments ago, where it looked like Wakatakakage was going to hit and sustain a higher level of dominance, but he has since receded closer to his averages. Which takes us to our next point.
Safety – The Sumo Kyokai has a kanban rikishi problem. They have a Yokozuna, for as long as they can keep him going. There are likely regular update from Isegahama on his status, and they are well aware how his recovery is going. For a time they thought they might mint a new Ozeki this basho, and it would solve a thorny issue for them. Right now, they need Takakeisho if they are going to uphold the tradition of having at minimum 2 Ozeki on the banzuke. It may seem odd to westerners, but the sumo world really does love their traditions. There is a risk that Takakeisho might become injured in training, or worse yet in a match, and be 2 tournaments away from following Mitakeumi and Shodai down the banzuke. With no successor yet apparent, they need to give themselves some time should that happen. So, make Takakeisho a Yokozuna, and he can be on the banzuke even if he is taking a few months off to recover from some injury. Problem solved. It could also bring some beneifts…
Support – Sumo is largely a Japanese sport made for Japanese speaking fans living in Japan. Those who know and love Japan, understand that having a Japanese yokozuna is a big deal for the popularity of the sport nationally. Minting a new Yokozuna would boost interest and visibility of the sport, as it increasingly competes for attention of fans in a crowded media market. Simply put, it may be worth some much needed cash to mint a Japanese Yokozuna right now.
So there are my three points, I think he’s earned it, it solves a problem with the banzuke until such time as one of the next generation can get their sumo together, and it will be good for business. Feel free to chime in in the comment section below.
UPDATE: The Yokozuna Deliberation Council has now met, and while some members felt there should have been a promotion discussion by the JSA (there wasn’t one), most members believed that it wasn’t a high-level yusho, so there wasn’t much to discuss. The run is on for Haru, with promotion conditions unspecified. -lksumo, via Kintamayama over on Sumo Forum.
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We would have known by now if a promotion were still in the cards. The NSK said quite clearly that they weren’t calling the special meeting that would be needed to initiate this process. Here’s the Sumo Forum post with the details: http://www.sumoforum.net/forums/topic/42312-hatsu-2023-discussion-results/?page=19&tab=comments#comment-485819
And in terms of deserving it, a promotion with 24 wins over two basho is unheard of in modern times. That’s without even mentioning the historically weak opposition, which Takakeisho has nevertheless been unable to dominate. (For comparison, Kakuryu went 14-1 14-1 with two defeats of Hakuho, not to mention Harumafuji and a slew of strong Ozeki)
I think that Bruce‘s reasons for a promotion are very good indeed.
And I disagree with U about the strength of the upper banzuke. I guess one could just as well speak of a historically strong opposition, which makes it very hard for the ozeki to keep their rank or even win a tournament!
For me there is little doubt about Takakeisho‘s deserving it and his palmares seems better than that of the latest japanese yokosuna, Kisenosato, who had ONE jusho when promoted.
It‘s a pity the NSK don‘t get it.
Kisenosato’s consistency at Ozeki is unparalleled, and during Hakuho’s prime. His Yokozuna run was stronger than this one. Even Mitakeumi has won multiple yusho, but the consistency is clearly not there for Yokozuna promotion. Your comparison doesn’t strengthen the idea of a rope for Takakeisho, in my eyes. It weakens it.
And since when is consistency at ozeki of any interest for a yokozuna promotion?
Kairo would have liked that, because he probably was the most consistent ozeki.
No, I really don‘t see why they shouldn‘t promote Takakeisho. Even Terunofuji had the same results as an ozeki before his promotion: back to back yusho and jun yusho (he had more wins than Takakeisho now, but his jun yusho wasn‘t after play-offs).
It’s a glaring mistake to compare Takakeisho’s last two tournaments to Terunofuji’s rope run, in my humble opinion.
My position is that the consistency is implied by the stated requirement of two yusho, along with the unstated idea that an Ozeki should be consistently kachi-koshi and winning 10. The YDC is saying that he’s doing his job as Ozeki.
For your information/comparison. Kisenosato has avaerage 10.7 wins a basho during his Ozeki time with exactly one makekoshi. Kaios Ozeki prime was over after the november basho 2004. Up till then he averaged 9.1wins per basho.
In the six basho leading to Kisenosatos promotion he went 13-2J, 13-2J, 12-3J, 10-5, 12-3J, 14-1Y.
Takakeisho: 8-7, 8-7, 11-4J, 10-5,12-3D and 12-3Y
Not sure how you can make a case that Takakeisho is more deserving than Kisenosato. Both his 2 basho performance as well as his consistency are worse or much worse.
Kaio was way before my time following sumo. He only once had a situation where he could eventually have been promoted, after the November basho 2004. He went 13-2Y followed by 12-3J. Slightly worse than Kisenosato and way more incosistent before. After that his performance dropped very hard
Thanks for the interesting numbers.
Here‘s another angle though: Kaio was an ozeki in more than 60 (!) basho and has 5 jusho and 11 jun jusho under his belt.
Consistency, thy sumo name is Kaio…
his longevity is surely impressive, but the point here was being consistently strong, which Kaio wasn’t after the november basho 2004 he had exactly 5 double digit basho out of the 34 basho till his career ended. Thats not Ozeki sumo anymore. in 2009 he finished every basho with 8-7 … consistent yes, Ozeki sumo no.
Kaio had a great career till November 2004 (thats when he had his last Jun Yusho. could he have made it to Yokozuna? Sure … guess just a bit unlucky when it mattered. Still he never put together those consitently good number like Kisenosato. After 2004 he prolonged his career for 6 more years without ever being in contention for a yusho again, except for Fukuoka 2010, where he finished 12-3 (only time he exceeded 10 wins after 2004) and was in the leader group till day 12.
Kaio was a great Ozeki, but even during his prime he didn’t come close to the consistently strong results by Kisenosato.
Both Kaio and Kisenosato have one 14-1 Yusho. Kaio has 4 13-2 tournaments with 3 Yusho, while Kisenosato has 5, but just one being a yusho and the rest Jun-yusho.
Without that fatal injury Kisenosato would have been a great Yokozuna, pretty sure he would have collected 10 Yusho. Also without those numerous injuries Kaio would probably have made it to Yokozuna. Unfortunately both didn’t happen.
I agree honestly, when he lost his 3rd match I was convinced that ought to be it but now with 3 days to think about it I have since changed my mind. The numbers are just barely not good enough based on historical precedent but cases like this are why they don’t have an actual set in stone number of wins. I think he should get it for the reasons you stated and I hope he does.
He is 4 bashos removed from 2 straight 8-7 records against normal competition. With Teronofuji out and the Nozekis back in the M ranks or soon to be there, 12-3 against this group is not all that impressive. 14-1 or 15-0 gets the rope MAYBE, but his losses were ugly and hardly bring to mind Yokozuna-brand sumo, even a Kakuryu. He may get the rope but I don’t agree that he has earned it. It would be more like you said, giving the Japanese people the Yokozuna they desperately want, even if it smells a lot like a reign as long as Kisenosato had!
He was injured in that period that why those bad results. Before the injuries he blasted all his opponents at the tachiai now he is getting back to his form before the injuries.
And now he’s injured again…😞
Not sure if I agree with Kakuryu comparison as Kakuryu had to do it all in the shadow of a very healthy G.O.A.T. If Kakuryu was a sole Yokozuna, he would’ve dominated lot more. Takakeisho’s performance is hardly dominant, its not consistent and it has not been where he had to fight against Yokozuna or other Ozeki every Yusho. Takakeisho is lucky where he is, he may be the strongest, but he is not a Yokozuna material. Better bet would be to wait few more Yusho to see how Wakatakakage, Hoshoryu, Kotonowaka and Asanoyama perform.
Kakuryu wasn‘t only in the shadow of Hakuho, he was also promoted by him and Asashoryu (as was Ama). The two mongolian super champions were extremes clever and wanted the Yokozuna duties on more shoulders.
What are you even talking about!? A 5 second google search shows that Kakuryu made Yokozuna 4 years after Asashoryu retired. Same with Harumafuji by two years. I’ve seen a lot of sumo conspiracy theories in my time, but this takes the cake for most braindead.
Thanks Liam for your very kind response.
The problem is U‘re right: I was too lazy to check the facts and relied on my memory. That was quite silly and weakened my point.
But still there was that connection which started with Asashoryu and brought us not only two but four mongolian yokozuna in a row. To get there, Ama and Kakuryu had to win two tournaments each in Hakuho‘s prime. I don‘t want to insult the two but even U have to agree that this would hardly have happened without the GOAT‘s consent!
Harumafuji went 15-0Y, 15-0Y to reach Yokozuna.
Kakuryu went 14-1JY, 14-1Y.
You got to give it to Hakuho. He really is the GOAT being able to convince all those rikishi to lose and pave the way for more Mongolian dominance.
That’s sarcasm, just in case you think I’m agreeing with you.
Even if Hakuho threw his matches with them (and again a quick google search would show that Hakuho actually beat Kakuryu on Day 15 and in the playoff during Hatsu 2014 , giving Kak his Jun-Yusho) That does not explain them defeating nearly every opponent thrown at them.
Which means you are claiming that Hakuho, and for some reason Asashoryu, were at the head of some sort of colossal match fixing racket, that involved nearly every top wrestler in the division, solely to benefit Mongolian rikishi, and that has never been espoused. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and shockingly for someone so sure of themselves, you’ve presented none.
Since I’ve already wasted too much of my time “debating” with you, I’m going to leave you with one of my favorite quotes: It’s better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak and to remove all doubt.
Very many very friendly words again spent by Liam. To no effect, unfortunately. The Ama and Kakuryu numbers were impressive but still leave the fact that they had to take away jushos from the GOAT. Jun jushos don‘t grant the promotion. So, no match fixing at all, but clever give aways by Hakuho, when the two had done their jobs beforehand!
Looking forward to the silence he promised…
I just know your teachers handed back all your tests face down.
Well Jay, I wouldn‘t know about face down tests.
Seems to be your specialty.
But I can easily Imagine teachers‘ remarks like „Poor Jay missed the theme completely, which was sumo not school!“
Imagine being this confidently incorrect lol
I’m not a fan of weak promotions, as it creates risk of diminishing prestige of the rank if the rikishi fails to live up to expectations (which is often not the rikishi’s fault for being overpromoted).
That being said, there have been weaker Y promos in modern days, specifically:
Kashiwado promoted in 1961 after 11-4, 12-3 (playoff loss)
Tamanoumi promoted in 1970 after 10-5, 13-2 (playoff loss)
I don’t consider those modern. The real dividing line is before and after the Futahaguro fiasco, when they went from “the guy kinda looks like a yokozuna so let’s promote him” to “must have two yusho in a row” (although that got relaxed slightly in the Hakuho era). Non-promotions like these were typical in the post-Futahaguro era:
Asahifuji 1989.01 O1e 14-1 D 1989.03 O1e 13-2 J 1989.05 O1e
Takanohana 1993.05 O1e 14-1 Y 1993.07 O1e 13-2 D 1993.09 O1e
Musashimaru 1994.05 O2e 12-3 J 1994.07 O1w 15-0 Y 1994.09 O1e
Hakuho 2006.05 O3w 14-1 Y 2006.07 O1e 13-2 J 2006.09 O1e
I am not sure whether he is ready for Yokozuna or not, but we should appreciate his achievement.
As Bruce said he is being criticized a lot, as if reaching Ozeki status, maintaining it for three years and winning 3 Yushos amounts to nothing.
The Problem is Hakuho has reached the top of the summit and created so much records that, these achievements very small.
Sometimes I feel he is not a Yokozuna material as his Sumo is one dimensional and have almost no answer to Yotsu sumo. And I am afraid if he becomes Yokozuna, he will be gifting Kinboshis like Kisenosato and recent injure prone bashos of Terenofuji, before his long kyujo.
Anyway happy for Takakeisho for his Yusho, whether he will be Yokozuna or not
As much as conspiracy theories abound, I would be surprised if insurance against future injury remotely figured in the deliberations.
But, regardless of the pontifications, lksumo is right – it is not on the cards, and so we move on..
On the bright side, Takakeisho had two sukuinage and two kotenage, so is perhaps becoming a little less one-dimensional..
*Only one sukuinage, but still :) .
Ha – good point! I guess a sukinage loss shouldn’t count in his favour ;). Thanks for the correction
While Bruce has given 3 points to consider for Takakeisho’s promotion (Thx Bruce!) I believe they are secondary in nature. My responses would be as follows:
Merit – No! Takakeisho has not done enough to merit the rope. We’ve all discussed the weakened state of the current banzuke. Against that banzuke Takakeisho has not been impressive or dominant and that must be a large part of the merit discussion.
Safety – This is a nothing point and shouldn’t ever be part of a real Yokozuna promotion discussion. While traditions are fine and well and good, promoting a guy for the sake of traditions and “being safe” is just sad and weak.
Support – While I understand the need to bring in revenue and keep the Japanese fans engaged, the NSK went down that road once before recently with Kisenosato and it was an epic failure. Also, during this January basho it was Asanoyama (a JURYO rikishi for crying out loud) who gererated the most buzz, was the most streamed, and sold out all his merch or as the Japanese call it “the goods”. Think about that, a Juryo rikishi created more buzz and received more attention than a guy on a Yokozuna run. Poof there goes the Support point.
I will disagree with one thing. I don’t think Kisenosato was that bad as a Yokozuna.
I think if Kisenosato had not been injured in his first basho as a Yokozuna he would have had a good career. The injury, and the lack of real treatment, is what cost him so much. Maybe he would only have been as good a Kakuryū, but that would have still be good enough to respect.
Prior to this basho mys sister and I would have strongly disagreed.
In my (admittedly bias) opinion, he’s a one trick pony. Sure, he’s strong, but get inside and he’s weak. We feel that a Yokozuna needs to have a deeper bench of techniques. One reason I loved Kakuryū, and we adore Ura, you never quite knew what they had in store for their opponent.
This past basho showed that Takakeisho has developed some techniques. His technique bench is growing. Okay, I can respect that. I’d still like to see one more basho at Ozeki to see if this was a one off, or if he continues to develop.
I may never been a fan of Takakeisho, but I won’t be angry if he does get the nod. He has matured skill wise and attitude since he first became Ozeki.
Sumo is in sort of a glass half-empty / half-full scenario right now. Is there no one super dominant because everyone is only OK, or is no one super dominant because everyone, especially at the top, is closer in skill than they have been in a long long time and everyone grinds back to the mean. At some point you have to stop comparing the current era to the historical greats and start looking at what you actually currently have. Which, outside of Terunofuji when he’s healthy, is a lot of parity.
On the live broadcast, the translator passed on a comment from the Sumo Association saying that this yusho was the most significant one for Takakeisho, because of his major role as sole ozeki. It is an important role, and I don’t think his importance to the sport at this moment is diminished by him not being a yokozuna. Better to have him as the rock as an ozeki, than put additional pressures on his shoulders. If he wins the next yusho, or has a 14-1 jun-yusho, sure he should be promoted. But can’t we just enjoy having one reliable ozeki for now? It’s not as if we have been overwhelmed with them lately.
Agreed. Takakeisho is a very solid Ozeki if he is healthy and that’s perfectly fine. Unless he takes another step up (not impossible, still young), a Yokozuna promotion would probably lead to a premature end of his career.
Over the last bashos his sumo is on a clear upwards trend, at least in my opinion. Maybe he can prove it in march and win a second consecutive yusho. Not sure if I wish him to become Yokozuna(because I’m worried he wont stay for long), but if he earns it, he earns it.
Takeisho gets PTSD when he fights Ochinojo so was lucky the big guy was sitting out this tournament. I think he is more likely than others to be stopped by injuries as he does not have the techniques to fight around them. Anyway if he is good enough to be a long term Yokozuna, he will prove it in March.
Everyone here has made some great points – I guess we have to wait and see what happens in March! Good Luck Takakeisho!
All of these points are fair, and if Takakeisho does end up getting promoted, this is how it will be justified. There’s only one big problem: none of these perfectly legit (on paper) arguments change the fact that Takakeisho doesn’t have the sumo skills to maintain Yokozuna level performance, and would flounder at that rank—and I doubt any other current Japanese rikishi would do much better. Still, you are right that sumo is desperately seeking a Japanese Yokozuna (hence the hype for Asanyonama, an aging/disgraced rikishi who also has a limited skill set). In my mind the JSA has four options here:
1. Over-promote an undeserving Japanese rikishi now, likely fast-tracking their premature retirement and further wounding the pride of Japanese sumo.
2. Forget the xenophobia and embrace the candidates to become Japanese Yokozuna that you have (Hoshoryu, Kinbozan, etc.). A guy like Hakuho has lived in Japan since he was a teenager, knows the country and its traditional culture better than most people born in Japan, is a Japanese citizen, and was a big money-drawing star loved by all—er, most Japanese fans. Aside from being a particular prefecture’s favorite son, what’s so much more more Japanese about someone like Takakeisho? Of course, many fans will never see it that way.
3. Cater more to foreign fans instead. The unchanging tradition of sumo is pretty much a historical myth, anyway. Remember when Yokozuna promotions were awarded at the whim of one samurai family? Remember when there was organized Japanese female sumo? Pepperidge farm remembers. Maybe “Ulaanbaatar basho” has a nice ring to it. Of course, I’m sure this is unthinkable within sumo (and just plain a bad idea, business-wise).
4. Stand pat, be patient, and wait. Don’t worry! Surely the next great Japanese rikishi is just around the corner. Look at Kotonowaka, up there in sanyaku. Atamifuji, he’s a young guy, right? Besides, sumo’s not about to die tomorrow. Everything is fine (for now).
Takakeisho to Yokozuna is an interesting topic, as he is one of the now myriad collection of pusher/shovers that seems to have taken over the sport. No Yokozuna that I’m aware of has ever fit that category. The irony is that in this tournament he actually came up with 3 wins via legitimate throws. Tells me he’s been working on technique. And he is the only one of that one-trick pony (thanks Wyldcat) that has an excuse to be – his arms are so short he couldn’t reach a belt. Can you imagine the damage Abi could do if he took the time to learn how to wrestle. But at the end of the day, if Yokozuna talent is temporarily in short supply, so be it. It will come. And I realize most sumo fans have to have one. I guess I’m in the minority of enjoying a competitive tournament no matter the rankings. An aside – I note the comment re
Kashiwado, who won “only” 5 tournaments, but he wrestled Taiho straight up.
Hi Zerox – The closest to your point in recent memory was Yokozuna Akebono. He started out as a pure pusher/thruster but later on developed significant belt skills as well.
IMHO, the pure pusher/thruster skilled rikishi (mainly Abi and Takakeisho right now) can not ascend to Yokozuna because they have no Plan B in the ring if Plan A (pushing/thrusting) doesn’t suceed. This is one of the reasons I didn’t put much stock in Abi’s yusho in November and stated then that he’d top out at Ozeki at best.
I’m a bit behind the times here but I will point out Abi has nage skills — serviceable, not exceptional — and these are what he falls back on (along with boring old hatakikomi and tsukiotoshi) when oshi and tsuki aren’t doing the job. He’s not as badly out of options as Takakeisho usually is (or rather, has been prior to this basho’s demonstration of beltless throws).